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Why does everyone hate Flash?

Discussion in 'Web Development' started by Sly14Cat, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. Sly14Cat New Member

    Sly14Cat

    I know that's a common thing, and being into web design myself I've seen it. Everyone hates Flash. I know this is mostly because of how it was abused many years ago, making terribly flashy and laggy web pages. These days it seems those have gone away (mostly) and newer technologies have taken stage. Do you think that Flash could make a comeback if used correctly? Maybe the Flash hate isn't warranted anymore.

     
  2. Converse Active Member

    Converse

    The most irritating thing about Flash was the constant urges to update flash, when all I really wanted to do was look at the web page.

     
    toradrake likes this.
  3. oldwriter New Member

    oldwriter

    Hi Sly14cat, here's my take on this.

    I'd say it in one word: portability. Modern-time one. Today's world wide web's landscape is quite different when compared to the one from past decades. Long gone are the days when desktop was king. Right now the mobile web is an increasingly important segment, with plenty of mobile-first (and even mobile-only) users.

    Flash wasn't a nuisance on the desktop only, on mobile platforms it proved to be a battery drain. Apple removed flash support from its successful mobile devices years ago, not to mention Adobe itself dropped its support for this technology after Android ICS.

    Sure, there are ways to install older flash versions on the top mobile devices, but common sense says the industry is moving towards better standards support. Clinging on flash would ultimately restrict you as the non-flash devices continue to rise. As a developer, you are better focusing on open standards enjoying the utmost portability, rather than being the developer with the outstanding solution for the platform nobody uses. Think about this the next time you are planning to develop that flash-based website.

    Regards.

     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2014
    toradrake likes this.
  4. fastreplies Original Member

    fastreplies

    Original

    Well, IMHO the reason is because "SEO Pros" simply can't use it.
    If you think about it, there is no place to add Keywords rich Content and without that
    your page is nothing but fancy flashy and good for nothing decor.

    :)

    fastreplies

     
    toradrake likes this.
  5. SimplySidy Member

    SimplySidy

    In addition to what has been mentioned above, today's HTML 5 and CSS 3 come with a bundle of features which (if used the right way) can make flash redundant - not to re-mention that this HTML5 and CSS3 codes will be rendered on almost all devices (as they use core javascript libraries). There is an HTML 5 Element/Tag by the name Canvas - and the official page at W3C says it should be used to draw shapes on web-pages. Creatives use this and make animations.

    Now, as far SEO is concerned, there was a buzz some years back (around 2008) that Google now has learned to Crawl and Index Flash -
    googleblog.blogspot.in/2008/06/google-learns-to-crawl-flash.html
    and
    searchengineland.com/google-now-crawling-and-indexing-flash-content-14299

    I am not sure how far this went into practice but yes, there were mentions of this change. However, the ultimate death for flash came when Apple removed its support from its Handsets and now, almost none of the smartphones use flash.

    Note: I cannot post links so am trying by removing the http thing.

     
  6. toradrake Member

    toradrake

    Along with everything everyone else has said, flash can just be plain annoying and distinctive. I've come across sites with flash on it that had me so distracted by it that I completely missed what I was looking for on the site to begin with. It can even be a pain if the flash is not properly coded right to and the designer/site owner is not aware. To me it makes a site look like an overly done Christmas tree with no presents underneath. But of course people still like having them on their sites because to them it looks "cool".

     
  7. Converse Active Member

    Converse

    After your next post, you should be able to. I lowered it from 25 to 20, and you are on 19 now.

     
    SimplySidy likes this.
  8. Shamzblueworld New Member

    Shamzblueworld

    I don't think it will be back, with newer technologies like responsive web design and htnl5, flash days are long gone. Also with the increasing number of mobile devices and people browsing mostly with their mobiles and tablets, flash is an ancient technology now, and will not be able to come back.

     
  9. ducklord Member

    ducklord

    I don't know about you, but Flash STILL crashes my browser in many-many cases. It may be some incompatibility with one of my Firefox's add-ons. It might be the way a video is encoded. I-don't-know and, to put it plainly, I shouldn't care. It's a technology with problems, that in many cases it plainly doesn't work as it should. And yet...

    And yet, whatever we may say about it being old, irrelevant, replaced by others, if you approach it from a designers perspective, there's NOTHING like it out there. And that's 'cause, as @SimplySidy said, you can recreate its functionality through JavaScript and HTML and CSS and in some cases JQuery and I don't-know-what-else, but... Did you notice what I've already mentioned here? A DESIGNER, meaning "a person creating imagery, graphics, animations", now has to also learn to CODE in those "languages". They may not be proper languages, but he's neither a proper coder - not even a "noob" coder, and he shouldn't have to be.

    Flash was and still remains the only technology of its kind almost-globally supported that allows a designer to create interactive content and animations in a "visual" way, through a "GUI" and a "WYISIWYG" editor, and not by thinking with co-ordinates and variables. And THAT'S the worst problem about Flash: that it isn't yet replaced because it CAN'T be fully replaced, until we see a new solution that can do whatever it can with the same ease for the creators of content. The consumer-side of content may hate it, but the creator-side doesn't have anything better to work with (apart from code-code-code).

     
  10. SimplySidy Member

    SimplySidy

    Now that we have a designer on board and the discussion is not confined only to Websites, yes, Flash is one of the best tools to make interactive DVDs specially for learning purposes. In 2003 when I was working for an application, and was sent to another Organization to learn inclusion of Languages onto the software we were developing, I met a few designers who were into developing Leaning DVDs for Kids. And yes, I must say, there is no other software around that can beat flash when it comes to this. Sound, Animations, Images, and I read that on the newer versions even Videos too can be embedded.

    Agreed, there are complex ones too which require more than a few GBs of RAM on your computer and a really faster processor, but if you can arrange for them, there are some really great sets of Virtual Tours done completely on Flash.

    The consumer side is upset only when it comes to viewing on the Internet. A majority of flash today is not supported by those smaller devices and also not to mention, some flash can really take a whole lot of your bandwidth and still take ages to load. Flex was touted to be a replacement some years ago, but then, I haven't seen too much of Flex on the Internet.

     
    ducklord likes this.
  11. ducklord Member

    ducklord

    ...heh, thanks man, but although I studied design, I've never worked professionally as a designer. Well, ok, apart from making two sites, one for a friend, one just some tweaking on an existing theme for a client. I wouldn't call me a "designer" until I've proved my chops! :)


    ...aaaaand HERE you've nailed it. That's EXACTLY the reason Flash was created at first, boys and girls. It was actually a light-mutated kind of software for creating PRESENTATIONS (notice the capitals and bold and whatnot for emphasis) to its bigger brother, Shockwave, created by a program called Director. That was ages ago, when Flash was created by Macromedia (yep, didn't you know it wasn't Adobe's creation? She bought Macromedia wholesale for it and its software).

    And, here's another interesting tidbit: have you ever heard of two famous adventure games on PCs, Myst and Riven? Yep, those two, as well as gazillions of similar games, were created with Macromedia's Director. And, as such, it could be said they are actually uber-big... Flash Games! Oh, yes!

    So, as you can see (and SimplySidy pointed out), Flash ain't bad on itself. It's how it transitioned on the Web that was problematic - the technology itself, Adobe that couldn't cope with needed updates as well as SOME idiots - yes, idiots - that used it the wrong way, borking our browsers. I've seen the results of some idiots work (no, I dare you, tell me he wasn't an idiot and I'm a bad person for calling him that), who had coded snowflakes for a Christmas effect on a site. Snowflakes falling. Tens of snowflakes. Hundreds. EACH, notice that, please, EACH of them computed seperately. Se-pe-ra-te-ly. A Dual Core was considered a beast, then, and by visiting a site with this effect its CPU burned at 100% utilization. For "counting snowflakes".

    A smartphone would explode on your face, taking the district you were in with it.

    And THAT'S why Flash is considered "bad".

     
  12. jblogger New Member

    jblogger

    The good thing about Flash right now is that it's totally irrelevant on today's web. Flash may be still live but it's day are counted. It's dead began with Steve Job's crussade against it (there has never been support for flash in iOS) but it was ultimately killed by Adobe itself (at least for mobile, but the desktop may have it's days counted too), the reason was pretty simple: HTML5.

    HTML5 is already supported in (most) mobile browsers. I don't know about other browsers but Chrome who had Flash support and if I remember correctly that support was dropped earlier this year.

    Desktop browsers still support Flash but HTML5 and Javascript have made it totally irrelevant.

     
  13. ducklord Member

    ducklord

    @jblogger Er... Nope? How many flash banners and how many flash games can you find online? Lots. Why is Mozilla working on a Flash replacement (Shumway) if it's irrelevant? Because it's not.

    Unfortunately, you still can't create animated content easily without Flash, there aren't any programs as complete as it for creating multimedia stuff. Until such software appears, it will stay "relevant" (and keep braking our browsers once in awhile).

     
  14. Edalin Cam Member

    Edalin Cam

    No, I'm irritating flash. Literally, Its irreverent from web page

     
  15. ducklord Member

    ducklord

    @Edalin Cam You do know that, for example, services like GrooveShark are wholy built on Flash, and their HTML5 equivalents can't be compared as far as functionality goes, don't you? Try visiting it with and without Flash and check how different it is, how more you can do in the Flash version.

    THAT'S why Flash is stil "relevant". GrooveShark is but one example :)

     
  16. Edalin Cam Member

    Edalin Cam

    Okay, I'll check it.. Thanks

     
  17. xTinx New Member

    xTinx

    Yes, I would have to agree. I don't really hate Flash but I think it's unnecessary to keep updating it almost every week. It basically ruins your enjoyment of various media. It's also annoying to wait for my browser to refresh. If they can limit the updates to once a month or even four times a year, that would be great. Besides, it's not like I can just do away with Flash. So many videos depend on it.

     
  18. jblogger New Member

    jblogger

    @ducklord I know you said Grooveshark is just one example why Flash is still relevant. I think Flash is dead, it may be still standing and even walking but it's doomed. Grooveshark (to name the same example) is using HTML5 too so flash isn't necessary to use that service.

     
  19. ducklord Member

    ducklord

    @jblogger Try and compare the two versions. The HTML5 one simply sucks. It's a "mobile" version, that doesn't offer the same options like the full one. It may not seem important at first, but try removing a song from your queue in the HTML5 version: no go. You can only hit Play and Stop after you've selected a predefined playlist.

    I know that Flash looks bad and it looks like it should be replaced with something better, but until we do have that "something better", if we stop using it, we'll be actually losing stuff.

    It's like saying "cars are bad for the environment, it would be better to use public transportation" in a city with 10.000 people and ONE bus :-D

    "Until we get more buses, nope"!

     
  20. Converse Active Member

    Converse

    I hate Flash because he looks so queer in those tights.
    [​IMG]

     
    jblogger likes this.

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