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Discussion in 'Web Browsers' started by toradrake, Dec 13, 2014.

  1. toradrake Member


    If you've ever noticed, websites are slightly different in different browsers. Sometimes a feature on your website that would work in one browser may not work in another. I remember when I first got into webdesign and other browsers (though in existence) were not very well known. Browsers like Firefox were used primarily by very computer savvy people. We were always told, when building your website... use Internet Explorer. Netscape Navigator was also pretty popular then. However, it was all about IE. Now, even though Microsoft has it apart of its software and so it is used in every computer that contains Microsoft, you hardly hear about IE. You hear about Firefox and Chrome the most, but there are others such as Opera, SeaMonkey, and Safari... and that is just to name a few. I wonder if IE is going to go the way of Netscape Navigator and fade away (well it did not fully fade away, but you hardly see or hear about it anymore unless you are client of AOL).

  2. Sly14Cat New Member


    This is nothing new. It depends on the company that's developing the browser. Google and Mozilla tend to keep up to date, so they'll have the best support for new features, and from what I remember Firefox usually is the first to have whatever new feature there is. The third would be Internet Explorer. Microsoft doesn't usually keep up with these features as the other two do, so expect slower feature acquisition.

  3. ducklord Member


    Well, actually the latest versions of Internet Explorer are quite good, and on some regards perform better than Firefox and Chrome (notice the use of the word "some", I'm not saying "it's better"). Try them out and you might be surprised.

    As for it going away, naaah. It's still used by millions, thanks to Microsoft shoving it down the throats of all users who don't know or don't care to use something different. As long as it's, in some way, "part" of Windows, or Office, Xbox, Windows Phone or whatever Microsoft straps it on, it won't go away.

  4. CyberGal New Member


    It can drive me nuts how different these browsers are. You'd think that there wouldn't be that much of a difference between them and now there's also mobile browsers to throw into the mix. It makes it really hard to know which one to even design your site for anymore. Personally, I have both FireFox and Chrome installed on my laptop. I have companies who say that their work has to be done in one browser or the other. I also find it interesting that some websites have also started telling you which browser their site is best viewed in.

  5. Converse Active Member


    That's been done since the beginning of the Internet. If people are starting to do that again, they're idiots. Do they really think that someone is going to switch browsers in order to visit their website?

    I have seven browsers installed, and I routinely view my sites on all of them and have never had to change anything for the benefit of one browser or another, at least not in the last ten years.

  6. Sly14Cat New Member


    This for sure. There is no way that Microsoft would let Internet Explorer (or Bing) die, even though they know that both of them are terrible.

  7. CyberGal New Member


    I don't think it's going to work either but I have been seeing it a lot more again recently for some reason. I know that I won't open a new browser just to visit a site. However, I do have some jobs that say that their work has to be done in a certain browser (i.e. a transcription company that I work for requires FireFox.) That doesn't bother me as much though.

  8. Billy New Member


    I've come across a few sites that were only viewable in Internet Explorer. I remember it well, because it was frustrating because I accidentally deleted IE from my computer, and had a really hard time reinstalling it properly.

  9. ducklord Member


    @CyberGal Although all browsers have the same "core set of abilities" (if we could call it that), each one has also support from different stuff, either as far as its own technologies go, what's supported by its JavaScript engine, what is implemented from up-and-coming CSS and HTML additions.

    Since "They Make Browsers" (TM), Mozilla, Google and Microsoft, as well as whoever else "Also Makes A Browser"(C)(R) wants to have a say on the future of HTML and CSS, and may have a different oppinion as to what would be better. So, there was a time when browsers DIDN'T officially and generally support CSS shadows, but Firefox did, his own way, if you used a specific code in your CSS markup, and Chrome did in another way, and you had to use a different code, and then IE added his own solution and blah-blah-blah... Until, like Highlander, one prevails and "His Way"(R)(TM) becomes the standard. And instead of having to type -mox-shadow, -WebKit-shadow blah-blah, you just type "shadow" and you're done.

    SOOOoooo... Yes, there ARE some cases where a site "can't be properly displayed in one browser and it's better to see it through a different one", but they are rare. Most sites that say "use browser X" just state their owners preference, or he's put the message there to cover his buttocks 'cause he only tested it on this specific browser :p

    Since Chrome was the fastest in JavaScript, though, most sites that heavily rely on it were (are?) better displayed through that specific browser. For example, do a search for "Lights", an online dynamically-generated videoclip that's coded with JavaScript. On Firefox you'll see it stuttering, even on a fast computer. On Chrome, it flies, as it should.

  10. toradrake Member


    LOL I thought I was the only nut that does that. It can be a pain in the wazoo. I have been hearing there is software that does it for you so that you don't have to manually do it, but I have not been looking for it. Some things just should not be automated.

    It really is frustrating. For those who use online web design tools, some offer a toggle where you can switch to see how it looks on a desktop, tablet, and mobile phone. Makes it a little easier.

    Been there, got that T-shirt and wore that hat... boy did I feel like a complete dumb a%@ when I did it too. I guess in the end, IE is essential because everyone, just about, uses it. Only those who are computer or internet savvy may use the other browsers.

  11. Converse Active Member


    There are, and there are also websites that claim to do that, but I have found that they don't always depict what the site actually looks like in these browsers. Today, while there are surely differences between the browsers, either the differences are not as sharp as they once were, or the HTML editors that I use are better at producing code that works on all browsers, because I rarely see much of a difference between browsers.

  12. toradrake Member


    Tweaking the codes for the browsers was not my department (they actually had a small group that was for the purpose) so I never really got to play with that realm. Not to mention, when I was designing people mainly used IE or if they were an AOL user NN. But now that I'm working on my own site, I am having to "relearn" a lot of stuff when it comes to the coding to make for sure that my site is viewable.

  13. ducklord Member


    @toradrake That's something I'm not good at, as well - tweaking the code for the different browsers I mean. I write my code for Firefox, hoping it works elsewhere, keeping fingers crossed, while occasionally checking in the latest version of Chrome and IE that it hasn't totally borked. If it has, I step back and revert the latest pieces of code to something else - that I, once more, hope that works. If it does, everything's perfect, birds are singing, happiness and rainbows and I go on. If it doesn't... Repeat.

  14. Billy New Member


    It's really weird, I couldn't figure it out. Every time that I tried to reinstall it, it would say that IE has already been installed. I'd try older versions etc, and that didn't work either. I ended up breaking my computer (unrelated) and had to get a new one and of course, now I have IE on here, but I have no idea what happened. I'm not a computer guy, so I'm sure if I was, I would have been able to figure it out.

  15. ducklord Member


    @Billy I hope that by "breaking your computer" you DON'T mean "software-wise", but talking about some hardware problem. I always get angry, as a true and total geek, when I hear someone say "uh, I installed something that broke my computer, so I bought a new one"! Gee, dudes and dudettes, software CAN'T (normally) "break a computer", at the very least you'll have to re-install everything! A chore, yes, or a loss of money you'll have to spend on someone else to do it for you, but not a reason to spend I dunno how much money to buy a new one - and throw the actually-perfectly-working-older-one away!

    It pisses me off 'cause it's the same, to my geeky eyes, like saying "hey, I had $1000 dollars to throw away, look how nice they're floating in the toilet"... DUDE! If you haven't got a better use for them, give'em to me and I'll give you back some Monopoly dollars to play with! Don't throw away your money! :-D

  16. SimplySidy Member


    Speaking about Browser Compatibility, and coming from a country where we still use Windows XP which comes pre-bundled with IE6, I definitely have nightmares when the clients come up and say, can you make it responsive on IE 6o_O Heck!!!

    Quite recently, I delivered a website on a responsive framework which does not support IE 6 and most of the things fail on IE 7 too - and it is mentioned on their website too. But my client needed me to convert the Framework to fit IE 6. Ridiculous as it might seem. I eventually said, sorry mate, this cannot be done as long as you ask me to keep using this particular framework.

    100% Cross-Browser compatibility has to be sacrificed on certain occasions - just as your complete CSS 3 set of codes will never pass the CSS validation even at the W3C (as of date) - reason being, it is still under development and 100% of the documentation is not yet available for programmers or coders. That said, most of the new CSS3 is still not completely accepted by the Browsers. So high chances, you will not be able to achieve 100% cross-browser compatibility.

    I still remember, how difficult it used to get when attending cross browser compatibility even on the CSS 2 - Microsoft and their IE definitely were spoilers. But yes, I must say - those who stood by time and delivered for IE 6, 7 are definitely the ones who will last for long. In that sense, definitely, IE deserves some applauds.

    And yes, as far as the question of IE fading out is concerned - sorry. This is not going to happen in the near future. As long as we keep using MS operating systems, they will always ship IE and as such, there is no escape from it. And I have also read somewhere that MS purchased Nokia just to keep their Windows CE alive and to stay in competition with Andriods and other non-MS OS for smartphones. With that mindset of a business, IE definitely is nowhere going obsolete.

    ducklord likes this.
  17. Converse Active Member


    Is browser incompatibility still much of a problem? I know that it used to be, but I haven't run into it in quite a while now. I used to create my sites in notepad, but I started doing that before there were WYSIWYG editors. I spent two weeks once just trying to achieve a mouseover effect in one of my menus. At that time, my interest was in learning to create websites.

    Now my interests lie in creating content and getting it online. With upward of 50-60 sites online, and at least 30 more on my to-do list, I don't have time to create them in notepad, nor a need really, since the average person doesn't know or doesn't care how the site was created. I generally use Rapidweaver, or sometimes Sandvox, to build my sites and whichever browser I view them in, they look about the same.

    I have multiple browsers installed on my computers, and multiple computers, including a PC. Plus, I have viewed my sites on computers at Best Buy or on hotel computers, and I can't see any difference from one browser to another.

    Mobile browsers are another matter. Some, but not all (by any means) of my sites are responsive. That is an option with Rapidweaver, but several of my sites were created before that was a concern. As I find time to update them, I'll make them responsive. But on a desktop or notebook computer, are there still sharp differences between browsers?

    ducklord likes this.
  18. ducklord Member


    @SimplySidy You're just saying that 'cause you're jealous MY CSS code "passes certification" :p


    Nah, just kidding :-D

    And, yeah, I get what you're saying - this project you mention must have been a total nightmare! I should note that you CAN have "100% compatibility" on all browsers. You just don't use "anything that could break them". The bad thing is that exactly those "things that break them" are, in some cases, the most interesting (like being able to apply effects on images through CSS 3 code).

    @Converse Yes and no. I'll go backwards: No if "you play it safe" and use stuff we had since CSS2 (or even CSS-no-number :-D ). Again, no, if you DO use more advanced stuff but you extensively troubleshoot everything you do and write "fallback code" for older browsers (different ways to achieve the same effects in your design - for example by using transparent PNG images instead of using transparency as a CSS option). And, finally, yes, you WILL have a problem if, like most of us real people, you DON'T troubleshoot in each and every step.

    ...And after writing 5000 lines of new CSS code, you realize something doesn't work, the design is totally borked, and the last time you'd checked your code was somewhere at "line 367". That's where you start banging your head on the wall. Bam. Bam. BAM. Crunch. Ouch. Blood. BLOOD! AAAHRGH!

    Converse likes this.
  19. SimplySidy Member


    Well, if I do sites wherein I decide the CSS codes, most of the things (about 80-90%) look same on Chrome, Firefox and the newer IE (okay 8+) and if I remove the IE from the equation, I get almost similar stuff on Firefox and Chrome (95-98%). Safari has some issues from what they (clients) have told me. And it seems that Safari on Windows is not the same as Safari on MACs. [As I dont have a MAC yet, I am unsure how things actually work with Safari for MAC).

    I was citing the Indian Scenario - where most of the users (specially Government Offices, many households - including me - and many other places) still use Windows XP and IE 6 (though IE 6 may not be their primary browsers, but some want compatibility for IE6 too and these are the real nightmares).

    But when we start using the CSS frameworks or even the latest jQuery (v.2x) - things definitely get messed up with at least IE being the one with most differences. The problem with using CSS frameworks is that - you dont understand most of their code as it is too lengthy and finding the right places to change gets tricky (owing to the fact that you never are sure what gets linked up with this part of the CSS, as you are not the coder of this CSS and also, you dont want to spend too much of time reading and reviewing 1000s of lines of CSS).

  20. Billy New Member


    I accidentally stepped on it. I did something that I've done hundreds of times, which was be sitting in a chair upstairs with my laptop, and then when I went to unplug it from the wall, I accidentally stepped on it. The hard drive was broken, and it's not worth replacing the hard drive when the computer was over 3 years old.


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